Referral rates at team1players and agroupeffort Options

[khala]

A website owner who accepts your money to send an ad to 100 people is not defrauding you if he sends the ad, whether or not you get any sales or signups. You got what you paid for, unlike the victims of click fraud.



Members who click your link because they were told they would get paid for doing so, are not cheating anyone as long as it wasn't against the PTRs terms to click the link and hopefully not against the rules of the site being advertised to send incentive traffic. If the member clicks the paid link and don't buy from you they have done nothing wrong, because they weren't paid to do anything more than click the link and visit the site.

I fail to see the difference. Advertisers are paying search engines for people to search for their keyword. Some searchers are only searching when it pays them to do so. Why should I click directly through google when I can get a share of the action by searching through Team1?

Here's another example. I get phone calls from survey companies wanting 15 minutes of my time to do a survey for an advertiser, who has paid the survey company. What's in it for me? And why should they get my time for free? I don't do them.

If I do a survey on-line I get paid for it. Don't you think that influences the result?

Of course it does.

If you have taken a course in statistics you know about probability. Regardless of what method you use to gain exposure to your product a certain percentage is going to buy.

The bottom line is, whenever a new industry springs up that produces a lot of revenue, there are always a lot of other secondary industries that spring up to take advantage of the main opportunity.

Read my lips "FREE ENTERPRISE"




This post has been edited by khala: Jul 13 2006, 02:47 PM

[Guest_priestes_*]

Surely priestes you don't think I am going to tell you anything, do you? What I, or anyone else does on the internet, quite frankly is neither your business or anyone elses. There are plenty of REAL illegal activities going on around the internet, if you want to make a difference in something, maybe you should set your sites on one of those. Until what I or others do becomes illegal, you are wasting your time.

What part of Wagdoll's post did you not understand about click fraud is illegal?

For those who are wondering, click fraud is illegal. In a case here, someone was charged with conspiracy, mail fraud and wire fraud

http://www.out-law.com/page-6803

Perhaps some more reading on click fraud and it's legitimacy?

Study: Click fraud could threaten pay-per-click model
http://news.com.com/2100-1024_3-6090939.html

L

ast week a judge gave preliminary approval to a settlement agreement Yahoo reached with Checkmate Strategic Group. Under the deal, Yahoo would pay about $5 million in legal fees and review advertiser click fraud complaints from January 2004.

Earlier this year, Google announced that it would pay $90 million in advertising credits and attorneys fees to settle a class-action lawsuit over click fraud

Cyberthieves Exploting "Pay-Per-Click" Advertising

The rise of "pay-per-click" online advertising, celebrated for turning Google Inc. and Yahoo Inc. into enormous businesses, is proving a boon for cyberthieves. Hackers are using increasingly sophisticated computer programs to automate phony clicks on Internet ads and then hide the click fraud from detection.

http://www.gigalaw.com/news/2006/06/cybert...-per-click.html

Google gets gruff over click fraud
Google filed a lawsuit against an Internet operation that it claims systematically clicked on text ads to defraud its advertising network. The lawsuit charges that Texas-based Auctions Expert International signed up to display Google's targeted text advertising on its Web site, and then fraudulently clicked on the ads to profit from its pay-per-click system.

http://news.com.com/2100-1024_3-5463243.html


I can pull up a bunch more for those who don't seem to understand the problem with click fraud. I am not here to call names or fight and this is my problem shadowette and it is just as big of a problem on the internet as everything else that some think are more important. If I turned my back to it and ignored it the problem will get even worse then it is.

I truly wanted to understand how you feel that it is ok to support sites stealing from advertisers?

[cuteycarrot]

Poor Yahoo and Google. Google stock is only selling for $400 a share. Isn't that just a crying shame

lol

[Shadowette]

What part of Wagdoll's post did you not understand about click fraud is illegal?
Perhaps some more reading on click fraud and it's legitimacy?

Study: Click fraud could threaten pay-per-click model
http://news.com.com/2100-1024_3-6090939.html

L
http://www.gigalaw.com/news/2006/06/cybert...-per-click.html
http://news.com.com/2100-1024_3-5463243.html
I can pull up a bunch more for those who don't seem to understand the problem with click fraud. I am not here to call names or fight and this is my problem shadowette and it is just as big of a problem on the internet as everything else that some think are more important. If I turned my back to it and ignored it the problem will get even worse then it is.

I truly wanted to understand how you feel that it is ok to support sites stealing from advertisers?

Boo hoo....guess I best go hunt down my black and white stripe suit

[Guest_wagdoll_*]

Then why is it wrong for sites that pay 1 cent per click, and not wrong for sites that 1/4 cent?

If you think 'click fraud' is wrong, morally and ethicaly, then it should be wrong for all who are doing it, yes? It doesn't matter how much money the sites make or if one makes more than the other.

I see a lot of self-rightous, rude, hateful people on here sometimes, whpo pick and choose which sites they bash for click fraud.

Who said it was wrong for sites that pay 1 cent but right for sites that pay 1/4 cent?

</FONT>

I believe they do it because people are not joining their programs or buying ads from them.IMO,most of this viciousness is rooted in jealousy and bitterness.

Like the accusation of sending their own portals, I don't think most of the anti-click fraud posters even own a program?



Wasn't it you who asked a little while ago about reporting POs who send parked domains as site support and tell members to do a search on them?

I have a question here for everyone screaming "click fraud."

Say I pay money to advertise a site that I am a member of on a site, and you are a member of the same site I am advertising, do you click the link to get your 1/4 cent or whatever even though you are already a member of that site and have no intention of joining under me? Wouldn't that be considered stealing my advertising money according to you? Or are you guys not wanting to look at that fact and only focus on these high paying search sites? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/eyebrow.gif)

If you send an ad in a PTR site, you are not guaranteed that all the visitors will not already be members of the site you send. Are they cheating if they click the paid link? I don't think it's cheating any more than me looking at a TV ad for coca cola is cheating if I don't like the stuff and wouldn't buy it in a month of sundays. The incentive is to allow the ad into your mailbox and to visit the site, no more than that. However if I recieve a link for a site I am a member of, if it's a limited click ad I would not click it. If it's limited and from the ad I know I wont join, then I wont click it. Nothing to do with thinking that clicking is breaking the rules though, that is just a hazard of PTR advertising unfortunately.



If you want better results than PTR can provide, you could try PPC. Then anyone clicking your result just for the money, and not interested in your product, would be committing click fraud (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[annem]

Since this "discussion" has turned into a search vs non search and lets get a site that send out higher link values for the search here are my thoughts on this.

Unless you are in a 100% search free PTR site and that includes support links that end up being searches then technically clicking the link and searching is fraud and clicking the link and not searching is dishonest. Links that are not searches but perhaps a ref link to a new PTR site, a link to an ebat store, a link to a autosurf site, a link to a HYIP, whatever the non search link is....you can click it wait for the timer and have no problem not signing up for the program or purchasing something. So is this act dishonest? As for search sites the sites that DEMAND that you search send you the email that say you are deleted because you did not do searches or fail to send you emails because you do not search are the sites that should be reported. Do I search every search link I get? No after 100's per day I get tired. But TOS for these searches are that you cannot force someone to search. If I want to and do, hey a bonus for you. And back to the sites that send the non search links, hey if I buy something, sign up under you, it is a bonus. There are several sites that send out bonus, support and other type of non paid links that are highly praised, but never condemned because they are sending traffic to a search site. But wait they pay so it is ok, then this team1 and group effort site has praises for paying as well, but becuase they send out higher link values someone gets irrated or someone had a beef becasue they perhaps had an account with something such as google adsense and got deleted because they placed those ads on pages that went to PTR sites and now feels that any site that comes up with those ads has to reported????
The debate over sites that send searches and those that do not will never end.

[trulyfair]

But if a member searches for that $$ incentivised search ad,its still click fraud and theres no way that you can justify it.

It is not click fraud if the member really has something to search for.

It is click fraud if the member just does a search for the sake of doing it. In other words, a fake valid search.

[Guest_2kids2pets_*]

Poor Yahoo and Google. Google stock is only selling for $400 a share. Isn't that just a crying shame

lol

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/duh.gif) Well duh, that makes it perfectly ok to defraud them then.

[trulyfair]

If you send an ad in a PTR site, you are not guaranteed that all the visitors will not already be members of the site you send. Are they cheating if they click the paid link? I don't think it's cheating any more than me looking at a TV ad for coca cola is cheating if I don't like the stuff and wouldn't buy it in a month of sundays. The incentive is to allow the ad into your mailbox and to visit the site, no more than that. However if I recieve a link for a site I am a member of, if it's a limited click ad I would not click it. If it's limited and from the ad I know I wont join, then I wont click it. Nothing to do with thinking that clicking is breaking the rules though, that is just a hazard of PTR advertising unfortunately.

If you want better results than PTR can provide, you could try PPC. Then anyone clicking your result just for the money, and not interested in your product, would be committing click fraud (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

It would be interesting to see the reaction when all the advertising budget was used up by PTR members doing their "valid" searches to earn a fraction of a cent and not a single sale made!

I'm sure the OP would be ecstatic. (Sarcasm intended)

[ann44]

The link value has nothing to do with it.

I can think of a lot of 1 or 2 cent sites that only send more than a handful of emails a day to people who do valid searches, and I know of others paying these same values that withhold payouts of members who haven't done valid searches. None of these sites offer anything except search ads.

How many 1/4 link sites are there that fit this description?

It's not the link value that is the problem....it's the massive number of higher link sites that are everywhere you look these days and are actually making newer people to PTR think that search ads are all that exist and mandatory searching is commonplace.

I want all search ads gone, but if that's not possible, then I personally would choose to try to expose the click fraud is cool sites before any others.

Why go after them first,is it because the owners are earning more than *honest* owners? Why not go after the others first,they have been comitting click fraud a lot longer.Now that gives me some incentive.

[rumild]

It is not click fraud if the member really has something to search for.

It is click fraud if the member just does a search for the sake of doing it. In other words, a fake valid search.

Give me a break. My home page is set to Yahoo. If I NEED to search for something, thats where I go.

Members perform searches to help the site, help the person who ran the ad and to help themselves and others to get paid.

I search for 1/4 cent rarely now (used to do 1/4 cent searches all day cuz we all know why the search ad was sent.) Now I spend my time doing 1 cent searchers for the same reason I did 1/4 cent searches.) It is no more wrong now as it was then.

ANSWER: BAN ALL Searches from ALL PTR. Or if that can't be done, atleast let others do as they choose, for whatever reason they choose.

[cuteycarrot]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/duh.gif) Well duh, that makes it perfectly ok to defraud them then.

Obviously the company has done well. Wouldn't ya say?

[kate]

I think there is only one group who really can stop this. And that's not the ptr owners, not their members, not the searchengines... it's the advertisers themselves.
If they do not get profit from their advertising budget by paying per click, the only thing they can do is stop spending their money with them, and find something better instead. As long as they are willing to spend, there will be people willing to take it, and that will never stop only by complaining about it.

[azhippie]

I think there is only one group who really can stop this. And that's not the ptr owners, not their members, not the searchengines... it's the advertisers themselves.
If they do not get profit from their advertising budget by paying per click, the only thing they can do is stop spending their money with them, and find something better instead. As long as they are willing to spend, there will be people willing to take it, and that will never stop only by complaining about it.

I also don't understand why the advertisers keep using this method, when apparently it loses them money.

[Jizzy]

Wagdoll, I didnt call you a hypocrite.
It was just a part of your post that I quoted to make my point

I see many people in here bashing against click fraud while they're part of it themselfs.
I am not going to name anyone in particular, but some are even promoting ppc eninges, and come here to complain against click fraud at the same time.

but I guess that is just a reflection of society.
They just go with the flow.