Referral rates at team1players and agroupeffort Options

[Arawn]

Okay, once again I am NOT trying to start another arguement, I am only asking to see if I am understanding this correctly. I agree that the person who sends their ads to the PTR sites wants signups (since that is basically their reason for sending them to begin with), but if a person who is 'clicking' signs up for each and every link they clicked on, can you even begin to imagine how many they would likely end up with? For example, if I receive say, 100 signup type ads per day and had to signup for each and every one of them at a penny per click, I would then receive $1.00 total in exchange for signing up for ALL of those. I would then end up as a member of these 100 programs that would ALSO send me links with ads that I would be FORCED to signup with, too (and so on, and so on, and so on). Obviously, this would eventually get out of hand and be way to much for ANYONE to do. Realistically, there is just not enough time in any day for anyone to do this much 'clicking'. Even if there were, the stress of actually trying to do it would be more than unbearable for the average joe. And all of this in exchange for earning that first $1.00. Eeeks! No thanx. I'm not willing to work myself to death for a buck or two. Now if I'm misunderstanding what you meant by your quote please forgive me and explain. I'm just trying to be honest here without trying to rile anybody up so PLEASE don't get angry. Getting in the middle of a heated debate is not my usual style, so I would really prefer to stay out of anything like that. Thanx!

Of course it would be ridiculous to sign up to every advertized website just because that's what the advertiser is hoping for. It would be insane for a webmaster to stop sending us those kinds of ads just because we didn't sign up every time. But that's exactly what a lot of webmasters do with search ads. Why are search ads different?

[bellestraker]

This unethical discussion is getting a bit like I am better than thou attitude. Good grief this is ridiculous the way everyone talks about the ethics and how perfect they all are and I dont mean just you its just your quote.
As neither parties deserve the money would you prefer it if the money was donated to charity and then we could get the charity owners here for an interogation as to whether they received their money from reputable sources?
Or maybe you would prefer it if the people received the money and then had a mass burning of the money in one big bonfire.
Have you never been into the bank and walked away with one of the pens? either knowingly or unknowingly, well I have done exactly that maybe you want to go report me for theft. I have taken home paper or other stationary items from work over the years nothing major but still I didnt ask permission and if I had of asked they probably would have allowed me the items but still until I asked for it I stole so you better put me in your unethical, dishonest group.
I challenge anyone here to tell me with hands on heart they have never ever done something wrong in their life.
If you keep repeating the dishonest behaviour and never learn then maybe thats a different thing.

You bet I am guilty of all those little "ooopses" ( That aren't really ooop'ses ) like having taken home the postie notes or a pen and yet I still believe that I am ethical. Now I know that from here on in I will be classed as a candidate for Americas Most Wanted and that was the point of my post. ( My sarcasm and writing seems to be lacking more than normal lately. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

People jump on a bandwagon because they don't want to appear to be one of those "terrible unethical searchers" but they restrict their ethics to one site or one area to show the "ethics police"that they ARE "ethical" but because they want to keep making money they just get a little bit ethical

People are flip flopping with their "ethics" daily and IMO it really has little to do with ethics and a whole lot to do with trying to survive without being labeled.

Who the hell are "we" to decide and/or label anyone for doing something against TOS. and start calling them criminals and unethical, lacking in morals etc. etc. etc.?

I am so sick of all the posturing and preening going on and I was trying to say if someone is going to decide that this is the ethical way to go because they REALLY BELIEVE that its "right" then would they not do it with every site.

If people REALLY BELIEVE in this search issue would they not stop ALL searches? If they are so ethical why would they even click on the ###### thing and take the money from the person who places the ad.
IF they REALLY BELIEVED why even touch it.

IMO it is because most of them do NOT really believe what they are saying and although I don't "LIKE" to see the original advertiser being ripped off...I ALSO don't LIKE seeing the 2nd advertiser being ripped off either.

But mostly...I just don't believe all this has a ###### thing to do with "ethics"

I understand people taking a stand against oframes, virus's etc. but who died and put us in charge of judging our neighbors every move. Who made us the "ethics police"

IMO the reason no one wants to say how ridicuous all this is...is simply because when people use words like "It is unethical"...then no one wants to stand up and say nonsense because what will that make them...why ..UNETHICAL of course.

pffft...

There is lots that is unethical in this world so lets deal with that. Its unethical to rip me off but to send me a search...nah...I don't think so.

Belle

ETA.
In the post above mine arawn asks "Why are searches different" and its a good question. I have heard it asked by the anti search group but only to back the "Be ethical" stance. But why are they different AT ALL.?

Let the search engines deal with anyone breaching tos of their sites and let US get off our high horses and stop pretending we can walk on water.



This post has been edited by bellestraker: Jul 17 2006, 05:06 AM

[ann44]

[quote name='strolly' date='Jul 17 2006, 03:10 AM' post='4507337']
This unethical discussion is getting a bit like I am better than thou attitude. Good grief this is ridiculous the way everyone talks about the ethics and how perfect they all are and I dont mean just you its just your quote.
As neither parties deserve the money would you prefer it if the money was donated to charity and then we could get the charity owners here for an interogation as to whether they received their money from reputable sources?
Or maybe you would prefer it if the people received the money and then had a mass burning of the money in one big bonfire.
Have you never been into the bank and walked away with one of the pens? either knowingly or unknowingly, well I have done exactly that maybe you want to go report me for theft. I have taken home paper or other stationary items from work over the years nothing major but still I didnt ask permission and if I had of asked they probably would have allowed me the items but still until I asked for it I stole so you better put me in your unethical, dishonest group.
I challenge anyone here to tell me with hands on heart they have never ever done something wrong in their life.
If you keep repeating the dishonest behaviour and never learn then maybe thats a different thing.
[/quote


Hi strolly,I have a question for you.Are you still a member of dayslook and avantcash? Aren't those 2 sites on your fellow snakepit member,priestes banned list?

[strolly]

Ann44 forum wont let me do quotes so will reply this way

Avant cash I quit at least 6 months ago cant remember the exact date but it was just after it was found with 0iframes and yes I was payed by them
Dayslook I quit quite recently maybe a month ago but it wasnt long and yes I have been payed by this site too.
Keep trying ann44 I have never ever said I have not been a part of click fraud or not done searches when I shouldnt have in fact I have been very open of the fact its what I have done.
You want me to name a few more theres plenty of them I have joined or been members of over the last two and a half years. I got two to clear out once I been payed yes very unethical of me to take the money but I clicked those ads what i did my end is my business so I earnt that money whether you or anyone else should say I shouldnt receive the money.
If you actually took the time to read my posts or some of them you might see I am actually on your side or the side of the members I dont like to see members being taken advantage of or bullied or abused by any PO be it a click fraud site or a non click fraud site.
It is an addiction and its all manipulative stuff that is very hard habit to kick. I will warn people of what it can do to members and how you can get hooked and how it can affect you when you get stuck in this situation.
what the heck is a snake pit?

[magnetix]

Thank you, Ann, but I think you may have misunderstood my question (not enough cake for you yet? LOL). I do understand how searches work and I have been doing them for a very long time myself. My question was actually in regard to a post made by arawn. Arawn stated in a post that anytime someone clicks on any link that that person (the 'clicker') should 'HAVE' to signup for 'EACH AND EVERY' program that they happen to click on or be deleted from receiving any further emails. I thought that sounded a little crazy so I just 'HAD' to ask to confirm if I was actually reading his post correctly.

This is the post from arawn that I was referring to:
Well, the confirmation I needed (to verify I was actually reading the post correctly) came along shortly afterwards. Steveww happened to make a post that I think answered my queery quite nicely.

Here a piece of Steveww's post to arawn:

Well, I hope everyone's got their umbrella's handy because Steveww may just be right about the rain. This time I am SOOOOOOOO staying out of it. I think I have had enough and I sure don't want to risk losing out on any more ding-dongs and cake. But just remember all, "NO DOGS" allowed, LOL. Oh, BTW, can someone remind me what's on the menu for tomorrow? Ha, ha.

PS: Oops, before I forget: How's the dog? Hope all's OK! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

I happen to agree with both of these people. The above mentioned quote is crap. I studied advertising and was in the industry as well. Advertisers are paying for exposure not signups or purchases. If they happen to get a signup here and there then the EXPOSURE is paying off for them. They don't expect everyone who views the site to buy their products or signup to their programs. For example, if this were true, then people would be buying everything they see from every ad they are exposed to. This is totally unrealistic and not expected in the advertising industry. They look at percentages, and if a venue is not paying off, then they switch to another venue that is working better for them.

Final note: Isn't it click fraud on a member's part if they opt in for searches and then don't do them? Everyone program I have signed up for, I know what I am getting into and govern myself accordingly. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[Arawn]

So if you opt in for ads for search engines and don't do searches it's click fraud, but if you opt in for ads about jewelry but don't buy any that's OK because the jewelry advertiser is getting exposure? Aren't search engine advertisers buying exposure too?

[magnetix]

That's what I said.

[Gabi2111]

I happen to agree with both of these people. The above mentioned quote is crap. I studied advertising and was in the industry as well. Advertisers are paying for exposure not signups or purchases. If they happen to get a signup here and there then the EXPOSURE is paying off for them. They don't expect everyone who views the site to buy their products or signup to their programs. For example, if this were true, then people would be buying everything they see from every ad they are exposed to. This is totally unrealistic and not expected in the advertising industry. They look at percentages, and if a venue is not paying off, then they switch to another venue that is working better for them.

Final note: Isn't it click fraud on a member's part if they opt in for searches and then don't do them? Everyone program I have signed up for, I know what I am getting into and govern myself accordingly. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

Very true. That is what I learned about advertising as well. Normal company's do get their "win" out of advertising by getting KNOWN by repeated exposure - so that a customer remembers them if they need a product...or want to purchase a product/service. And when I become a member at a PTR site, I opt in for Paid To Read = PTR. I read the email, click on the link and get credited. Done.

Not sure how the searches fit into this all. But there are a lot of things at PTR that don't fit in the normal way of advertising isn't it?

There are programs that don't send you much emails if you don't search...and these programs are around since ages. Other programs won't do that. But if their ad results are bad their advertisers won't return...and the people sending out the search ads are advertisers at the PTR sites.

All by all its one big milking of the system. Search engines selling keywords, which means the end user won't see the site of his/her interest but first the sites of people who paid enough to get them there. (Isn't that cheating the end user?) People buying keywords and get people to visit their site (making money then by exposing other stuff etc)...people becoming members at Search sites...sending out search ads to make win....people owning a search engine. Etc etc etc. And in the end...at the bottom line, there is the PTR member. These days often called the one commiting fraud.

Let me put it this way. Normal company's trying to SELL a product and getting ripped off by PTR searches, I bet they will change the way of advertising immediately. If they don't do that...jeez...what do they do then in business? The people buying keywords for exposure and making their win other then selling a product or a service...to be honest I don't feel that sorry for them. They are milking the system just as the others do in the chain. And some sites which do actually sell something, and stay in the system, I have the feeling these Viagra - Insurances - Medication...whatsoever make still enough money to make it worth. Probably less these days. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

[sbindia]

Well, for the most part, ppc/cpc advertisers do not buy advertising on what we loosely term 'search engines'.
PPC/CPC advertisers, for the most part, buy advertising from 'search providers', or from 'search distribution networks'.
I do not personally know of one that tells their advertisers they would allow ptr traffic. There used to be Two, one went under, I forget the name of the other, it never showed up in ptr that I know of tho, the bid level and advertiser base was simply too small to support ptr profit demands, never would have worked.

The Domain Parking Industry is backed by either google or yahoo.
There are 'lesser' parking outfits out there, that do not have g or y in back of them, generally they are backed by 2nd tier cpc contextuals, which run a little higher in bid value than their regular raw ppc search products.

The '3rd tier' se's that commonly are seen at ptr sites are practically without exception fed by 2nd tier ppc search.

I am not aware of a 2nd tier ppc search provider that tell their advertisers they would allow ptr traffic.

MO.

MO
i saw parked.com site in smiley traffic it was someones site and i didnt comlained about it
but its easy to make more cash by promoting in PTRs.i dont know who owns this types of sites and who are buying ads may be this parked owners are too supporting click fraudsters
but i seen some people bought ads in search engines which they dont accept PTR traffic
and also i seen people bought space in link directories but never seen buying in SEs those revolving in ptrs
if i promote in ptr i would make more $$$$ in a month but never tried this some one got $12 per click in parked.com and i too got one click 1.87 but they removed stats so i too removed my domain but looking to add again and see how it goes

Regards
suresh

[crankypants]

Why are search ads different?

In my humble opinion search ads are different because you have to request to get them Everyone knows that search ads require extra work...but everyone wants them because they want the extra mail and the extra money that comes with it. If you don't want to search its really very simple just uncheck the search box in your profile area because if you aren't intrested in searching and you are just visiting the portal page so the timer runs down then you have no business ticking of the search box.

Now again that is just my opinion and one that I don't expect anyone to take into account since I am just a new member but after 35 pages of reading I just had to say something...must be the female hormones...I can only keep my opinion to myself for 34 pages..so watch out any threads 35+ (IMG:style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)


Anyone willing to share those desserts with a newbie? Chocolate cake would be heavenly.




This post has been edited by crankypants: Jul 17 2006, 07:26 AM

[ann44]

In my humble opinion search ads are different because you have to request to get them Everyone knows that search ads require extra work...but everyone wants them because they want the extra mail and the extra money that comes with it. If you don't want to search its really very simple just uncheck the search box in your profile area because if you aren't intrested in searching and you are just visiting the portal page so the timer runs down then you have no business ticking of the search box.

I agree


Now again that is just my opinion and one that I don't expect anyone to take into account since I am just a new member but after 35 pages of reading I just had to say something...must be the female hormones...I can only keep my opinion to myself for 34 pages..so watch out any threads 35+ (IMG:style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)
Anyone willing to share those desserts with a newbie? Chocolate cake would be heavenly.

I dont have any chocolate cake but how about a choclate slimfast.Or maybe I could search and find another snowball cake.

[sbindia]

I happen to agree with both of these people. The above mentioned quote is crap. I studied advertising and was in the industry as well. Advertisers are paying for exposure not signups or purchases. If they happen to get a signup here and there then the EXPOSURE is paying off for them. They don't expect everyone who views the site to buy their products or signup to their programs. For example, if this were true, then people would be buying everything they see from every ad they are exposed to. This is totally unrealistic and not expected in the advertising industry. They look at percentages, and if a venue is not paying off, then they switch to another venue that is working better for them.

Final note: Isn't it click fraud on a member's part if they opt in for searches and then don't do them? Everyone program I have signed up for, I know what I am getting into and govern myself accordingly. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

you are correct but if you didnt supported to the advertiser by joining under refferal link or searching etc then the advertiser doesnt earns money and he never comes to advertise again

this is what i say when i was in GPT my friend advised to promote SEs as we wont get much emails to click and we are unable to support advertiser
so i had advertised in few sites but when i get bad result i would advertise in another site i always gives a site for two or three times chance

Regards
suresh

[crankypants]

I dont have any chocolate cake but how about a choclate slimfast.Or maybe I could search and find another snowball cake.

Snowball cake would be lovely. The heat index here is over 100 so anything cold makes me drool. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beach.gif)

[magnetix]

you are correct but if you didnt supported to the advertiser by joining under refferal link or searching etc then the advertiser doesnt earns money and he never comes to advertise again

this is what i say when i was in GPT my friend advised to promote SEs as we wont get much emails to click and we are unable to support advertiser
so i had advertised in few sites but when i get bad result i would advertise in another site i always gives a site for two or three times chance

Regards
suresh

Again, that is what I said when I referred to them looking for other venues that are more successful. Read the last sentence in my first paragraph.

Cheers!

[bellestraker]

In my humble opinion search ads are different because you have to request to get them Everyone knows that search ads require extra work...but everyone wants them because they want the extra mail and the extra money that comes with it. If you don't want to search its really very simple just uncheck the search box in your profile area because if you aren't intrested in searching and you are just visiting the portal page so the timer runs down then you have no business ticking of the search box.

Now again that is just my opinion and one that I don't expect anyone to take into account since I am just a new member but after 35 pages of reading I just had to say something...must be the female hormones...I can only keep my opinion to myself for 34 pages..so watch out any threads 35+ (IMG:style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)
Anyone willing to share those desserts with a newbie? Chocolate cake would be heavenly.

Supposedly all ads are targetted..Not just searches ...but it seems searches are the only one with a major problem.

I do understand and agree with some of it but it also appears that many want to have their cake and eat it too because....as you said...it would be a simple matter for those opposed to untick the searches and NOT do them ...but then they wouldnt make anything for visiting the portal.

Why is it unethical to eat up all of the original advertisers money but completely OK to do it to the 2nd advertiser. It wouldnt have anything to do with the fact that they still get paid when they use up the 2nd ...would it?

Maybe it is time to look at the entire issue from another angle ( at least the "education" part of it ) or put it to rest. The problem with any discussion is the labeling of anyone who does not kowtow as being a thief,cheater etc.

That kind of "discussion" doesnt exactly open the door for many to give opinions.


I dont have any chocolate cake left but I have some fresh cinamon buns....wanna share.


Belle

eta...For a newcomer I think you are getting the hang of all this pretty well.



This post has been edited by bellestraker: Jul 17 2006, 08:37 AM